Diablerie is a most vile act and truly “one of the greatest sins” a vampire can commit. Micheal has denied to me that he is in fact a diablerist in a private conversation.

I challenge him to repeat this openly so that other might hear his statement.

Let us have no equivocations here

Michael have you committed diablerie and thus are a diablerist; Yes or No


I have been informed by Micheal that he will “correct” the Harpy regarding this matter.

I would like it known that in no way have I ever stated that Micheal has not been forgiven for an act he did or did not do, has or has not done, or would or would not have done. If any anyway my fellow kindred have drawn a conclusion from any of my previous public statements that this was the case I unreservedly apologise. It was never my intention and I most fervently do claim that Micheal was never forgiven for an act that did or did not happen. If such acts did occur then it is a simple task to ascertain that the act was forgiven. Again I most strenuously assure the kindred I have never claimed that if such an act were done it was not forgiven.

Furthermore I would ask that the Harpy produce a true and clear record of Micheals reputation and status in this regard. I further welcome Micheal’s decision to clarify the matter for the Harpy. Given Micheals actions in “correcting” the Harpy I feel that my concerns in this matter have been addressed.


Elder Cornelius,

I was horrified to view your public attacks upon another elder of our sect. Surely such things would be better handled privately rather than airing such greivances in public. For these reasons I am forced to consider your actions Vulgar and will inform the harpy as such.

Primogen Irena of Clan Brujah


Elder Cornelius,

I find myself agreeing with the Brujah Primogen that such matters are better discussed in private and that such comments accusations border on slander. I too must find you vulgar.

Yours respectfully,

Horatio Ballard


Firstly the Micheal is still recored as a forgiven diablerist in the harpy’s record so therefore your accusations are inaccurate and incompetent in Irina case

Irina since the harpy was at our last gathering and you have no other status that could do so your vulgar does not stand. However i find your insinuations insulting and therefore consider you warned.

Horatio you to are so warned

I give out the warned status to both of you.


Elder Cornelius,

I issued Vulgar not for your statement regarding my elder. but rather for the fact that you did so publicly. As I stated, I feel such matters are best dealt with privately.

I will allow the Harpy to decide weather or not the Warning will stand.


(( OOC Irina is Brujah Clan Primogen, thus gaining the “Noble” status, which may be expended to give the status “Vulgar” ))

It is my sincere belief that all parties involved should refrain from further statements until the Harpy has examined the following exchange and dispensed a judgement on the matter.Respectfully, I would hope that the Primogen and Elders of our Domain would, at the very least, not feud so openly during a time of conflict with the Sabbat and tensions with the local Garou.

Verecunde ac inde in umbra,

Keeper Leonides.


I believe this has been covered - Primogen only have jurisdiction over members of their own Clan. Yes, I know Noble says: “While you possess Noble status, you may award any individual the fleeting status Acclaimed or Loyal without expending this status.”

However, Jurisdiction rules still apply.

Page 314:
"Unless otherwise stated, all uses of status (passive bonuses or active expenditures) must target characters who have
been within the jurisdiction of the individual expending the status within the last 30 days.

Page 376:
A Primogen’s authority includes: “…Holding jurisdiction over members of her clan who have recently visited or dwell within her Prince’s domain.”

Ergo, Primogen can only use the spend power of Noble (to assign Vulgar) to members of their own Clan who have recently visited or dwell within her Prince’s domain.

However, an Elder’s jurisdiction is much different. Cornelius can apply negative status to anyone he’s physically interacted with in the last 30 days.



Primogen have previously been allowed to award positive status out of clan, such as Loyal. How is it now that they can’t award negitive status?

Sorry - I’m still new to the ruleset, but it doesn’t make sense to me to be allowed to do one, but not the other.


I would say that previously, the rules have been applied incorrectly.

Unless the ST’s have specifically decided to allow an exception, jurisdiction rules apply. For both positive and negative.

The rules are complex and there are so many combinations and situations - we’re not going to find all the in’s and out’s until we try them :slight_smile:


For this particular situation, Irina may be able to claim jurisdiction as it is a slight against her clan by another member of the sect which she is awarding status, but I suspect that we will not know for certain until an ST rules on it…


I am finding myself annoyed with this entire topic this matter will no longer be a matter of public debate, a court of inquiry will be called at my prerogative and grievances to the various parties will be laid me for judgement.
Till that time, I do not wish to hear the this matter aired in public.

Prince Jean-Baptiste Gabriel de Sainte-Croix


(Lets have ourselves a good ol’ IC court room drama! that and frankly OOC rule arguements suck)


10 posts were merged into an existing topic: Primogen Jurisdiction and Status awards


10 posts were split to a new topic: Primogen Jurisdiction and Status awards


I should like to remind all including Irina that it is entirely appropriate to discuss the abhorrent act of diablerie. It is even more so when such a matter is of public record as noted by the harpy.

As an elder it is however entirely inappropriate to be chided for a non existent ill by a mere neonate. Especially when that neonate was a member of that most odious, loathsome and detestable sect the Sabbat.

Sadly this is an all too predictable response from a neonate who clearly lacked any appropriate guidance from her bastard lineage.

OOC Cornelius uses the term bastard in the old fashioned “born out of wedlock” meaning, not its more modern possibly more offensive use as a common expletive.